Point Defense not working...there a fix yet?

[TheLoneTerran]

Hello, I started playing Moo3 again after a long hiatus and about 300-400 turns into my game, my point defense stopped working. Missles will always impact my ships, ruining my armadas even though there are many, many PD weapons on the ships. They also target fighters just fine, just not missles. I lost a battle that cost me the game because they were IF heavy and my ships did not shoot down the missles. The game was over from there on out, they rolled over all my fleets because I wouldn't shoot missles anymore. Anyone got a fix or a mod or anything to make my game playable again? I'm not really feeling like its worth to play if I keep getting to mid-late game and I lose.

I should also note that this happens in EVERY game that I play, sometimes super early, sometimes not till later but it always happens and it always costs me the game. =( I'm using the 1.2.5 patch and many of bhuric's fixes like the visibility fix. Thank you for your time.

[LORD-ORION]

PD is always screwy, especially when you are running full speed into incoming missiles.

Best bet is probably to use Bhuric's mod where you can increase the size of launchers but reduce the size of ammo as well make it so fighter squads target missile salvos primary (probably the best mod)

[epenn012]

I know many people have different ideas on PD, here's my 0.02. Bear with me while I explain my reasoning and background.

I used to play a game called Harpoon 97. Before becoming a computer simulation, Harpoon was developed by Larry Bond as a board game (Tom Clancy used it to help him write "The Hunt for Red October" and "Red Storm Rising"). Harpoon 97 had a scenario editor where you could build your own campaigns. To keep it short, that game gave me a great understanding on the mission and purpose of each type of ship. Harpoon had a formation editor that had task group responsibilities:

Core: whatever you want to protect
examples
CV Enterprise or CV Nimitz classes

Air Defense
CG Ticonderoga class
DDG Arleigh Burke class
DDG Kidd class
just a few....

Anti-Submarine Warfare
DDG Arleigh Burke class
DD Spruance class
FFG O.H. Perry class

Picket:
FFG O.H. Perry
EC-2 Hawkeye Airborne Early Warning


I honestly believe that the developers of MOO3 were also fans of Harpoon.

Think of Point Defense ships like Air Defense ships.
PD ships are my favorite builds. I very rarely have any issues with PD ships engaging missiles first then fighters. The only time I ever have any difficulties is when there are two or more sets of missiles incoming and they are equally dangerous and at the same range, but again, very rare.
First thing, I'm a fan of turrets. I never use spinal mounts, especially on PD ships. Spinal mounts are for the offensive. With PD's, you have to be able to TRAVERSE in order to meet the threat.
Next, I only depend on beam weapons to take on the heavy workload of PD.

Finally, I layer my defenses by using Standard, Light, and Point Defense mounts. In air defense, stand-off is critical. I don't layer for rate of fire or damage power. I layer for separate range bands. Here's a very basic example showing the range layering:

21.7K Standard Disintegration Beam

17.6K Standard Phaser Beam

17.4K Light Disintegration Beam

16.3K Point Defense Disintegration Beam

14.0K Light Phaser Beam

13.3K Point Defense Phaser Beam

5K Light LFG


Around a single armada, there are 7 distinct engagement lines a missile or fighter group has to cross in order to reach that armada. If my fires aren't triggered at 21.7K, then the next opportunity is 17.6K. If fires aren't triggered until the Light Mount Disintegration Beam (at 17.4K), the weapons that hadn't previously fired will now be triggered. What's really nice is with 10 armadas, any missile or fighter group has to cross at least 30 individual engagement lines in order to reach its target. The armada on the rear-left has the range (and the traverse capability) to cover the front-right with some of its firepower. It's fun watching 10 or more missile attacks get burned away. There are times when I am watching 6 missile groups close in on 1 armada and I expect to see red numbers crawl upward. All of a sudden, the missiles are gone.

Let me know how it works out for you.

This post has been edited by epenn012 on Jun 26 2011, 07:53 AM

[Max_Zorin]

Harpoon... that brings back some memories. I liked that game but the unfortunate crashes stopped me from playing years ago. Don't remember which version it was or why it crashed. Good game though. I understand the game has been updated to a 2010 version.

I tend to agree with your layered PD approach. I like to do the same thing. One thing I don't usually have though is a dedicated PD ship. All ships have anti-missile/AA on them. The non-core being heavy PD orientied.

[epenn012]

Harpoon 97 was great because because the program could be stored on a portable hard drive and be transferred and played on any computer. My copy took a 9 foot nose-dive onto a concrete floor...sigh. "97" had a few battlesets that is called EC2000 (a Fortress America version of Harpoon) which I was addicted to.

I've been playing MOO3 since I received my pre-order version in 2003. I am still finding out new things. To give you an example, I had no clue that you could drag ships from the Short Attack into the PD role. All these years...wow. It's still a fun/great game. I may experiment with your style on the next game. I keep my ships in the same hull size with the same specials, but I specialize their weapons based on the functions I want them to fulfill.

This post has been edited by epenn012 on Jun 30 2011, 01:40 PM